@kde Fantastic write up! Clear communication and values throughout.

@kde

How do those links qualify as dox? I was under the impression that “dox” means information that reveals the real-life identity behind a pseudonym. This doesn't seem to qualify; the X account is also pseudonymous.

As for no one else in FOSS being a cackling techbro, you might want to review the list. https://drewdevault.com/weird-guys/

@kde

>The person who doxxed the other was banned.
>
>Later, the identity of the doxxed person was verified, and they were also banned for their conduct outside of KDE being so unacceptable that people inside KDE did not want to associate with them.

Interesting 🤔

Was the "doxxed person" banned due to information that was uncovered by the "doxxing"? Would the same have happened if the "doxxing" had not occurred? Which personally identifiable information was uncovered by the "doxxing"? Would you count a Twitter account under a pseudonym as personally identifiable information that justifies the term "doxxing"?

@kde "In other words, this is a hard problem."

It has an easy solution: Nothing has fundamentally changed with regards to the vast chasm of negative externalities, so for the foreseeable future, the answer is NO. Any domain expert who sees all of that badness and still thinks it's a good idea to use LLM to "help" the project isn't someone whose "help" is needed. If/when substantial improvements occur to the horrible circumstances surrounding LLM and other current AI use, then such a blanket-ban policy can be re-evaluated.

@kde

> One of those people doxxed the other

Doxxing is what you consider a punch in the face?

To be clear, you posted that the actions of the banned person was equivalent to a punch in the face. So that's why I'm asking.

@kde

> Someone else outside of KDE set up https://kdeforpeople.com in an attempt to brigade KDE into banning LLMs.

Expression of the "users and contributors" 's point of view isn't brigading. And the stance "I don't know pretty much anybody from this list" is so close to miss the bit of "you are not KDE users".

Just a month ago we lost Neovim in that manner, https://github.com/neovim/neovim.github.io/issues/501

@kde yeah, that’s a pretty thoughtful writeup, but it sounds like the step where considering a policy got derailed was 22, “The draft proposal was removed and the whole topic hidden.” If the disruptive people were banned, why didn’t y’all proceed to consider the proposal?

@kde calling out a nazi isn't "doxxing". criticising slopbrained consent-manifacturing isn't "creating drama". advocating for a ban of fashtech isn't "brigading".

@kde There seems to be an air of dismissiveness (maybe even antagonism) towards anyone entirely anti-AI in this article, especially in the comments...

@kde The base reaction of "you're not even a user, so get lost" is a bit outmoded.

This is a behavior that Linux really needs to rethink: they aren't users now, but they could be users. Open Source isn't capitalism, and PR isn't a volunteer job, let alone paid. But where your mind is at and how people are approached speaks volumes before someone even tries your program.

Has it occured to anyone to confront your "brigaders" with a question: "If KDE blocked AI commits in development, regardless of their value, would you start using it?"

(I won't post any further. This is all I have.)

@kde

nate... you literally built up boundaries between users and contributors in this process the moment pushback from users appeared (and pulling up someones anonymous twitter account isnt doxxing) and the topic of AI Usage is adversarial and its a including it in a way where its encouraged to not be disclosed to be used is where i feel cheated and exploited

Alt...

Nate September 23, 2026 at 4:40 pm An open letter is a pressure campaign. That’s fine in the context of an adversarial process like politics or a commercial transaction where one party is being cheated or exploited. But this is FOSS! The boundary between user and contributor is greatly collapsed.

@kde First things first. I do not know who's behind the account here. Maybe you are a decent person, or a group of persons. No idea. And I am a bit sorry for you, as you have some shit to clean up. I wouldn't like to be in your skin right now. So, please mind, whenever I am writing "you", it doesn't mean people directly taking care of this account, but the whole KDE organisation. And as the whole organisation you deserve some criticism.

As the KDE organisation you need to answer yourself a question: for whom you are making the software? If for yourself, then fine. Just close the repositories, gatekeep new contributors to the ones which will not cause troubles, and play in your own sandbox. No one will be bothering you. And we will lost a valuable piece of software.

However, if you, by any chance, want create something valuable for users, then there are another few questions. Do you respect your users? Do you value their feedback? How do you want to get their feedback?

Right now, from the whole kerfuffle, the image is, that you are treating the development of KDE as your own playground. Which, to some extent, is fine. We all need those sweet dopamine hits. I am not judging you for that.

But, so far, all your communication regarding your user base seems disrespectful. Particularly, the use of "brigading" word. How else you want to get the feedback from your users, if you block your own channels of communications? What you did is performing the act of censorship. And - at the very beginning - you have censored people pointing you your mistakes. That doesn't look good. And also, at your first impulse, you have defended a person with disgusting views.

Which moves us to another item. What are your values? What kind of community do you want to create? Former experiences in other communities has shown us, that either you aim for creating a diverse, progressive community - and that excludes right winger, or you want to create so called "big tent" which, in the long run, ends with pushing out diverse people out of the community, as there is no safety guaranteed.

That question is very important. I myself, as a trans person, am in the vulnerable group. And I will use all reasonable means and knowledge to keep the environment around me safe for myself, and for likes one me. Because people upholding racist, homophobic, transphobic views are not safe. If that means pointing to a resource where they - under their own name - embrace such views, and there is provable connection between the identity, and the real name, I won't hesitate to reveal it. For my own safety.

As far as I know - and I am glad to be corrected if I am wrong - no personal data has been revealed regarding the person with unacceptable views. So, "doxing" is yet another manipulation. And the way you have handled this item also says a lot about the priorities of your own values.

To put it clearly. You have fucked this situation deeply. And you need to rethink both: your values, and your moderation procedures.

And I believe the honest apology is due, to the user base, and - particularly - to Sweetluna.

Take your time, talk internally, and make a consistent statement, which will show your values and commitments clearly.

And a note for potential disputants. If I am factually wrong, feel free to correct me. I am not afraid to admit my own mistakes or ignorance. Not the first time, and not the last.

But if you are going to try to convince me to reinterpret facts known to me without providing factual background - please spare that both of us. I have made my mind.

#kdegate (I do not know, if I will participate in further discussion, as I have nothing more to add right now, but if that happens, I will use this tag - feel free to filter it out, if not interested).

@kde didn't know "referencing the publicly made posts that a person made, publicly, on their twitter" was doxxing

cmon. get serious

@kde I miss a nuanced view on this issue. To me it seems like the Sanders and Bannon followers took the butlerian jihad literally. But I'm somewhat disappointed that KDE Eco does not differentiate the resource consumption of genAI for assisted coding/epistemic/knowledge work on the one hand, and video slop, entertainment, gaming, product ads, disinformation campaigns, deep fakes, agent swarms, you name it one the other hand. genAI can help to optimize resource consumption, it's a matter of usage

@kde as a signatory of that petition (under a different alias) I'd like to ask: if you don't care even a little about what users think and refer to collective action as "brigading", what makes you meaningfully different from the commercial tech sector? if i wanted to use software that i have no say in the development of, I'd use Windows!

@kde

This is all good, and reassuring, with a couple of notes;

"A bunch of people mostly outside of KDE"
That would be the users. I feel like our opinion matters? No?
Honestly, I don't really care about the opinion of the people who want it. Just because someone says "I like making shit sandwiches" doesn't mean I need to eat them because they're doing the work.

This isn't really a delimma. Do the right thing, don't support Nazis or their tools, and let people who want to go do their thing.

Oh, Nate Graham's blow-by-blow account is the real deal. Reading through the whole thing is the only way to understand why things played out the way they did.

@kde yeah no. This is still attempting to manufacture consent for LLMs (I mean, even language claiming that it is "very powerful technology" and putting it alongside serious ethical, moral, and practical concerns attempts to put them on the same grounds).

Others here have already spelled out that simply linking to a public account is not "doxxing" and again, that framing attempts to gather sympathy for what was a bad call that y'all could've just owned up to.

And as someone who has used KDE for 15y+, and introduced it to several folks new to Linux to convince them that Linux can be for everybody, I certainly feel annoyed that KDE isn't interested in listening to users like myself or thinking of them as if they have something useful to offer to the community. I was a signatory on KDE for people, because I felt like I had no other way of having my voice heard.

@kde Gotta be honest, I am really surprised that open source projects are even considering allowing AI.
If this were an art project, any artist who'd proposed using AI "art" for anything would have been laughed out of the room immediately

Why the hell aren't coders doing the same? Coding is a craft like any other

@kde I don't understand why coders don't treat AI-generared code like artists treat AI-generated art. It's a craft like any other

@kde

i don't have a problem with how you handled things except for one detail

if someone is doxxing someone, that should be banworthy...

but if then, later, it's revealed, genuine proof, that the doxxed person is an actual bonafide nazi, then the person doing the original doxxing should be *un*banned

doxxing is wrong

unless we're doxxing nazis

@kde very well written and relatable

@kde

As someone who had no idea any of this was happening, the main thing I think was poorly handled was the interaction with those two individuals, considering what has been circulating about one of them. Writing of it as if it was just a disagreement is a bit strange. And if the "doxxing" was only a Xitter account, I think we're using different definitions of "doxxing".

That said, I'm glad that KDE development seems to want to restrict rather than encourage LLM involvement. 1/2

Womp womp

@kde
pygodous for a more classical rendering

@kde I dunno, guys... "We banned the person who pointed out one of the people we were listening to is a nazi and provided receipts" is not the reasonable and civilised position that you seem to think it is

"We later banned the nazi too, it looked too bad with the receipts out in the open" does not make it much better

A whole section of "look, this is all fash tech and we all know it, right?" followed by "But it can spit out so much code tho!" couldn't be farther from an "apolitical" position

@kde if a person is a nazi, they are a nazi. You do not discredit Nazis. You point it out. #NoAIinKDE

@kde So very well written.

Maintainer burnout has been a conference topic for 20 years and it isn't getting any better.

Not having a human you are lifting up on the other side removes much of the emotional return.

Also, debating with - passionate, well meaning - folks who are outside the developer community about how to handle the situation is also incredibly taxing.

@kde its only two words "nazi" on this page, both in comments section. i think author is nazi

@kde I think your boy Nate made it much worse actually

@kde This is good but he's too positive about #LLMs:
- he says they are "genuinely useful" having started that some users can get identical results with less work. That's conjecture because they do not get identical results even if code generated is identical. The difference is all the insight and notes created by doing the work. The scope for speed up is limited unless you avoid the most valuable part of the work.

- there is no responsible use of #LLM tech because of the harms using it causes

@kde
I love your « What on earth is going on here? » section : it is short, clear, list a lot of problems (not all of them, it seems impossible or unreadable), well describe the current state, is empathic with both side of people

I would prefer that my favorite DE to be made by and for humans, but it is a complicated topic

@kde > what on earth do we do with a technology that is genuinely useful for various things?

Get rid of those misconceptions.

It isn't useful, it is really good at pretending it is, while doing things previous tools and practices already did well (snippets, linters, formatters, type checkers, compilers, code reviews, pairing, etc). Replacing deterministic tooling or human collaboration with LLMs isn't "useful", it is flaky and alienating. You get a higher volume of output, with lower quality.

@kde

Thanks for writing and posting this.

It has made me think about my own behavior. How I became more and more toxic myself.

Thanks!

@kde

> Two people unknown to any KDE contributors

"Users."

@prahou @catsalad why is she putting on clothes while talking about browsers

@prahou @catsalad as far as developers go, rodinal has never bullied me

@prahou what if my only friend is my mobilek?

@prahou
Mobilek had a six pack

@prahou i still have this exact mobilek, in perfect condition actually, because back then i didn’t have the urge to throw him against the wall

@p That's not true. Polish fedi is me, @mkljczk, and her mine 120 alts.

@rysiek Rly? Damn. It sounds like techno-discrimination

@rysiek This year I tested out how easy is it to exercise your right to be forgotten with RyanAir and it was one of the worst companies to deal with.

In case it's interesting I'll link my thread about it: https://mastodon.online/@dlsl/116512661113196158

@rysiek Ouch, thanks for the warning. It feels like this should be illegal unless disclosed during the purchase.

@rysiek i hate ryanair with all my soul but sometimes i have no other option but to use them.

They say that about the app but you can still install the app, screenshot the qr, uninstall the app. It is not one of those awful qr like Ticketmaster uses

@rysiek fucking hell, what a bunch of cunts.

Its funny, I have a second phone for work trips where I can't avoid WhatsApp etc. Had a recent trip that involved a stop over and I was quite worried about not missing flights etc. so installed the Vietnam Airlines app. Anyway, a friend checked for my details on some places and low and behold, that's where my data had leaked, one fucking app. Fortunately I used a one time email Addy but these cunts are literally forcing people to get hacked.

@rysiek Ryan air boss compares other airlines to rapists at recent AGM

@rysiek ryanair is well known as being absolutely scummy, applying every dark pattern they can think of to add charges to your bill, all while giving you the worst experience they can. If ryanair is your only option you're better off hitch-hiking instead.